Bra fitting help » How come this bra doesn't rest on my IMF?

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Cleo » Piper Longline Balconnet Bra (9351) » 32H 32:11

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Suggestions (4)

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  This is definitely too tight in the band--Cleos run small to begin with but a longline will always tend to fit firmer due to the greater band surface. A too-tight band will tend to creep down towards the more compressible bottom of the ribcage/waist area, so this could be one of the things happening.
  Try an extender and then pull the bra up to get the underwire as close to your IMF as possible, and loosen the straps as much as you can without them falling off to make completely sure you are not artificially pulling the upper cup shallower than it would otherwise be. If you still cannot get a tack, or if you get overspill and/or the gap between breast base and wire soon reappears, then you could either try 1 cup volume up (size up in band as well) or you could conclude that the shape is not good. This particular Cleo actually has a flatness and steep slope to its upper cup panel reminiscent of main-collection Panaches, meaning that it is best suited to wearers whose upper breast shape is tapered at a compatible slope. This cup design is highly unlikely to work for you if you have a round breast mass that is all concentrated on the chest wall rather like a letter "b" when viewed in profile .

  I would not stress out about defining your shape based on this bra (nor about pendulousness which essentially is meaningless when we are considering how the breast acts when supported). If you like Cleos, the Marcie is more of a versatile cut (for anyone who doesn't have excessively tiny shoulders) and has a more forgiving top edge.

  Regarding pain on your sides, I think the question of whether it is a wire problem versus support issue is a false dichotomy--IMO it is often both. Bear in mind that the pain from a boned garment is frequently what is called referred pain i.e. the spot where you feel it is not necessarily the exact place where something was pressing, digging or straining. If you have been mostly wearing Cleos, Panaches or other bras with notoriously hard wires, or indeed Elomis or another brand known for extra-wide wires, that could be the explanation as both can cause pain, even when they are properly-fitted and rest on your ribs or muscles instead of breast tissue. If you are active or just naturally muscular and have well-developed pectorals the tip of a wire on a full cup bra can often sit across or poke into part of your pecs which is VERY painful; if you are not especially muscular and the wire is just doing its job, with a heavy chest a harder wire or less-supportive band or both can still cause a fair bit of pain. The fact a longline causes less discomfort is actually quite relevant to the wire issue as a longline band's support lessens the force with which wires press into the wearer (in a standard bra, the wires are the only part of the structure that significantly "pushes back" against the body to compensate for the outward and downward pull on the cups when a heavy bust rests in those cups; in a well-fitting longline, the whole back surface of the longline helps "pull back" against that outward/downward pull, so the wires aren't doing so much of the work anymore, if that makes sense).

  Updated on April 1, 2019 Flag this

  
  

  • Thank you, Wendy! That's enormously helpful. I've been wearing Cleos for years because that's what fitters tend to put me into. (a Cleo Lucy was my first). I had no idea that the wires were hard. Now that I live in the burbs without a good bricks-and-mortar nearby, I've stuck with Cleos rather than journeying into the unknown. My old fitters also always put me into pretty darn tight bands for support, and it would keep the pain away for the first few weeks of wear, at least, even though it felt constricting.

    I don't have a long enough extender to take your advice, but I will try pulling the 32H up tomorrow to see if I *can* fill out the bottom. I plan to return my lot of Piper longlines and start over so I can nail down aspects like my root height and shape. If a better fitting bra still gives me side pain, than at least I'll be armed with knowledge if I go looking for a new longline.

    Your insight re: support AND underwire is really useful, as is your explanation of the longlines offering a counterforce to the pull of heavy breasts. That's a really good explanation of the feeling I had when I started wearing them. My roots are proportionately quite small compared to my breast tissue, so my bras are asked to do a lot of lifting. Even my longlines hurt when they start to wear out.

    I'll look into the Marcie once Amazon returns my bra fund :)
    I really appreciate the guidance.

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    You're most welcome fierfitz ! Rereading my post just now I realize that despite composing a whole novel I forgot to mention that the band being overly snug, even a little, is another common cause of side pain, again from the wires, which will dig in extra hard if the band is also tight (although not necessarily exactly at the wire location, again--referred pain). So for people in a size range where their bust weight makes it important to have a band that is at least somewhat firm, it can make all that much difference to choose brands that use only moderately-tough wires or even softish ones. I know when I was around 11-12" boob perimeter Prima Donna felt AMAZING just because their wires are quite flexible! And of course longlines were just like a full massage hahaha.
    Anyway just reinforcing that I know it's hard to find many longlines to choose from but it's worth it if they feel better. You might also invest in some nonwired styles to give your sides a rest or, if you're feeling adventurous, try to find some specialty flex-wires like the kind used in nursing bras, and experiment with replacing the hard wires in a bra you are ready to sacrifice. Not sure they can be found through ordinary shops but people who are discarding nursing bras often are happy to ship you the wires for a few bucks!

  • Huh, that's fascinating. I didn't know that my tight bands could be the cause of my pain! I will definitely size up to 34 band. Do you know if anyone has rounded up manufacturers based on wire flexibility?

    Several years back, I tried a non-wired--the Bali 3820, in 34DD (I was about 10 pounds lighter then). That gave me pain, too, though I don't have a clear memory on if the pain was different than with underwires.

  • oh you mean wire manufacturers? I am not sure but you'd want to check bra sewing blogs and such I think. If you mean brands, you prob want to do a post but off the top of my head I know Freya and Fantasie are known to have fairly floppy wires, Prima Donna, and maybe Comexim but I'm not sure about that one.
    I am familiar with that Bali model, I know it runs somewhat generously but I can't imagine it being a workable size for you when you were just a little bit lighter. I imagine any pain you felt was from compression and poor support due to lack of containment! And possibly from straps digging, because it doesn't even have a full underbust band/M frame like the Playtex 18 hour and probably provided inadequate support from below.

  • Curvy Kate has incredibly flimsy wires! Freya as of recent has very firm wires too.

  • Yes, I meant brands, thank you, Wendy!
    I had a Freya Pollyanna years back, but since most Freyas are narrow, I haven't tried one since. I haven't tried Fantasie, Prima Donna or Comexim.

    Do you have any tips on how the band should feel? I've tried the two-finger test, but it mostly confuses me, since I can put my whole hand under my 32 band if I try.

  • I have to post and then dash out, but I did as you suggested and hiked up the 32H as high as I could. I added photos to my original post and my observations as a new comment. This was a really good tip--thank you!

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    oh yeah I agree those new photos are very illuminating! Clearly, while the band is still overly tight, loosening it would not make this shape or cup size perfect either. So best to switch to another bra.

    Tips on band: it should be snug enough that it does not ride up in the back and that the whole bra doesn't fall off you if you remove the straps.

    It should NOT be so tight that you get any of the following warning signs of excessive tightness:
    - cups being pulled east-west when this is not the typical look of the bra
    - wires being pulled towards your back
    - hooks and eyes visibly straining
    - band digs into the flesh of your back and chest (and sometimes armpits) well beyond the indent you may normally get with a well-fitted band. If it creates a whole new "fold" or vertical crease over the spine that is a telltale sign.
    - a cup that is the same as the depth and width that usually fits you, fits you much too small
    - a cup that, going by numbers, ought to be far too big, somehow appears to fit you with no extra depth to spare
    - signs of cup distortion like upper edge being pulled very shallow, base of cup making big, firm creases and collapsing in yet your breast rests far above it
    - band creeping south on your body
    - pain from gore or any other part of wires.

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    brasaremean I don’t mean to contradict you but I want to point out that some Curvy Kate wires are flimsy and some are as firm as Panache wires. They are unpredictable for sure.

    Just a note to OP: another issue you might be having with the wires sliding down is that they are too tall. When you move your arms if your armpit or arm jostles the top of the underwire it can push it down there. It can also cause aching/side pain- I get radial pain through my shoulder and arm because I subconsciously hold my arm out from the wire a little.

    Wires are a big part of the bra, so if you can get the band and wire (called the frame) figured out, you’ve won 75% of the battle. Good luck!

  • That's extremely helpful advice on band sizing. I'm going to proceed with the Marcie for more shape insight, then explore Fantasie, Prima Donna or Comexim to see if more flexible wires make a comfort difference. I feel optimistic for the first time in years, so really, thank you for all you insight!

    cupandahalf--Funny you mention that, because I haven't had the too-tall issue in general BUT on Monday I tried yanking up my old Piper (a now way-too-small 32FF). It was tight enough to stay up all day, but left me with nasty red rub burns under my armpits. So I think wing height is a problem I may encounter once I find bras that fit my IMF.

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• 1
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  I think I remember this being a hard-to-fit bra, but it looks like its too shallow for you?

  Updated on March 31, 2019 Flag this

  
  

  • So you think it's just not enough immediate projection? I've also been wondering if I may have short roots or high set breasts, but I just honestly find it hard to tell.

  • I agree w Calluna - not only too shallow at the bottom (immediate projection) but also too shallow at the apex - the place where the nipples go.

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  I would say it’s too shallow. Your boobs are searching for more space higher in the cups by the apex, which pushes the bra down, and simultaneously making the cups too small.

  Updated on April 1, 2019 Flag this

  
  

  • Thank you! I'll look for a model with more projection, both immediate projection and apex projection.

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  Update: Per Wendy's suggestion, I hiked up the same bra as high as I could, with the straps as loose as allowed. (Photos #7-10). These are selfies, so I apologize that they aren't as good pics.

  Observations: The underwire is now only about 1/4-inch below my IMF. My breasts are now more in line with the bra's apex. Instead of spilling out, I now have some gaping at the top, particularly near the straps. (See photo #9). Some slight wrinkling remains at the bottom of the cup, but much less. (See photo #10). The wings are now nearly in my armpits.

  This seems to confirm the need for a larger band, more projection (especially immediate projection), and a different shaped cup. I am also wondering if this indicates that my breasts are high-set.

  Updated on April 2, 2019 Flag this

  
  

  • I don't know if they are especially high-set--it is hard to judge with all the other issues going on here. I think already with a band that is not so tight and a cup that is not as tall i.e. closer to your own shape and proportions, you should hopefully have a bit less armpit interference!

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