Bra fitting help » wire width cup depth conical breasts
Chantelle » Rive Gauche Demi (3085) » 70C 32:3
I've decide to put up a fitting help request, because I'm at my wits end. I love this bra, but it does not fit and I'm really at a loss as to where to go from here.
The problem:
I sized down to a 70C, because the 70D I tried earlier was so much too roomy in the cups it was laughable. In this size, however, I STILL do not fill out the cups -- according to the measurements I took the difference between the cupdepths of the 70D and this 70C is indeed only 0.5cm -- and they STILL seem to come up way higher than they should. Also, despite the empty space and wrinkling in the top, the cup edges are borderline cutting in and the shape I get is just ... funny.
On top of this I have the problem that the wires really are just a bit too narrow for comfort. I don't think they are actually sitting on breast tissue, but they come so close that they begin to bother me after a couple of hours wear, especially on my larger right side. For this reason, sizing down even further simply is no option.
The thing is, I have had these same issues with almost every single bra I've ever tried and I just don't know where to go from here. My breasts are the epitome of 'conical' (i.e. very triangular in profile) and they're decidedly 'short' (i.e. breast root in the form of a horizontal oval). I'm pretty sure this is why I'm having such a hard time finding bras that fit, but alternative explanations are welcome. Also, suggestions as to what I could try next are very much appreciated.
Oh, and I should probably say that the band of this bra fits comfortably and without riding up when closed on the middle set of hooks.
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Suggestions (4)
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helpfulWow, the demi looks like a full cup on you o.O
But in your defence, even on the models it gives more coverage then other chantelle demis.
I think c-chic might be good if you don't mind the lack of padding.
http://www.herroom.com/chantelle,bras,demi,cha001,001,37,24.htmlOther than that, this comes to mind...
http://www.bratabase.com/browse/only-her/chili-1005/
And of course, there's always TLBC if you think you can wear a C cup now..
http://www.thelittlebracompany.com/Updated on April 25, 2013 Flag this
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From what I've heard TLBC was specifically designed with that in mind, so maybe it's worth a shot.
I also think that for some bras you actually might do better in a smaller band, maybe you need a bit of wire distortion for the wires to end up where you need them o.O -
That's undoubtedly true ... unfortunately more tension on the wires also aggravates the cup edge sitiation. When I pull on the band of this bra to make it tighter, apart from the fact I would not be able to wear it like that for more than five minutes, I go from wrinkles and empty space to outright quadboob.
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MilkAndHoney Hmm I've been looking one hundred times because I don't really know what to make out of it. But I'm turning in quite another direction here and I think this is what frustrates me the most with bra fitting:
It is marketing. It is very good marketing. We are lead to believe that there is any such thing as a perfect bra out there. We have read fitting guides, we have learned about how a bra should fit.
We have learned that these new true bras with true bra fitting will never cause any pain or discomfort. We have learned the old was wrong and this new method should be better.
Bra fitting is built up with a lot of nonsense that sounds reasonable to those not knowing about physics or sewing. Bra fitting is good marketing, without a doubt. But does it make it work?
Somewhere our minds snap. Why do we suddenly believe the market will provide us with a fitting bra? Where in the mass produced mess will there be a bra for boobs that are nowhere near mass produced? Where in this mess will there even be a bra fitter understanding a breast that doesn't fit the product?
Shallow boobs don't exist, they are not even breasts in the bra fitting marketing logic. They don't fit the measuring systems, the cups, wires or anything.
So we are outside of the bra fitting marketing logic. And we do really know it. Still we try to find something inside it that will be perfect, because we are told it will be out there.
And now I come to the other logic we so easily forget:
Bras are not made for experts. They are made to be sold to the stupid mass, for a better word. Because that's what makes profit. They need to cater to a big mass. And most people don't care about wire distortion. They don't even know what wire distortion is.
And hence bras are made complete with wire distortion, because they still sell. People don't care if the bottom of the cups are stretched out. You do because you're a seamstress.
And rationally we know all this. We know we are not the mass and so will not fit mass produced stuff. But still the search for some reason it's easier than taking the time to actually sew ourselves. Even if the actual sewing would take less time and energy than we now put into it.
I don't know what it is. I just know my mind is seriously skewed by bra fitting and that it's more of a social thing and a problem solving thing to me than anything else. But that's true for everything I do I think. Because I should just sit down and try to sew. But I just don't. And I don't know why.
So that's how I see bra fitting. For bras being made for shallow boobs there should be a shallow brand. No more no less. And still that will never manage to cover every shallow aspects, because nothing ever can fit everyone :)
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With all that said here are my fitting suggestion: I do beelive Vee is right about you needing more wire distortion to make bras fit. I think wires in general are made to distort or manufacturers don't even care if they do.
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The wires in this bra actually ARE already stretching (as they should -- really, the band is not THAT loose) and on top of that they're really quite flexible. As I said, they're not sitting directly on breast tissue, but still too close for comfort (I hate these hypersensitivity episodes). But yes, I agree, for wires in this size range to be wide enough for my body they probably need to be distorted even more. Cool. That means I'll have to wear tighter bands (which I can't wear) and have even more cup-edge-cutting-in-and-what-not issues *headdesk*
Branarchist : you do know I totally agree with you, don't you :)
I'm feeling more and more 'skewed' by this bra fitting mess as well. I KNOW there is no bra that will ever truly fit me (in fact, I've known this all my boob-possessing life), yet I still keep trying. To give it a positive spin I'm trying to see it from the point of view of 'research', but h*ll is it EXPENSIVE research! And if I'm brutally honest, my bank account is not the only thing that's suffering ...
I wasn't joking the other day when I wrote that those Lepel Fiore balconettes I ordered the other day will be my final attempt -- at least for some time to come. I have a Bravissimo exchange order in the making for some wireless Panache Sophies -- those have been on my wishlist forever and it's an exchange (#umpteen) so it doesn't count ;) -- and Braologie is going to send me a sample of their new 'Casual' range in a couple of weeks, but that's it. I'm out. I just don't want to do it anymore. I'm obviously and enthusiastically so still in it for the social and 'problem-solving' aspects, but I really want to take a break from bra shopping for myself. Crappy as it is, unless a miracle happens, this demi seems to be as 'good' a 'fit' as I'll ever get in any commercial brand. Period. Oh well. At least it's a crappy fit in a pretty bra -- shouldn't that be good enough? *rolls eyes*
It's up to Braboratory from now on ;)
Sometime this week I got another vital piece of the bra cup drafting puzzle and now I know 'in theory' how I should go about drafting cup patterns for different breast shapes. The picture of how to deal with different body types is also coming together. I'm sure I'm still missing many puzzle pieces and critical links, but I think I DO have a pretty good idea where to start. All that is needed now is time ... and a good basic block to manipulate, but I have already been working on that and although it is far from ready yet I feel confident it's getting there.
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MilkAndHoney I think that drownedsalad is onto something when she says cups are too tall for her. Are you also short?
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Yes, I think I even wrote that in my request and review :) I am borderline petite (161cm / 5'3") with a proportionally short upper torso and 'short', high-set breasts -- I even have to alter petite-sized sewing patterns because my upper torso is even shorter than 'regular' petite and my breast point sits significantly higher ...
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I figured! Same height as me XD Check out my new bra adventure, I think I might be onto something :)
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helpfulI am new here so I am just taking a guess, but it looks to me like the depth might be too much and the top of the cup too closed. I wonder if you tried a smaller band size if that would help. You could always use an extender and I would think the smaller band size would also have a shorter cup height since a smaller band size is likely to also be a shorter torso.
Updated on April 25, 2013 Flag this
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Thanks, cosmoblue :)
This bra is supposedly 'good for shallow breasts', at least according to the information on the Chantelle website ... huh. Anyway, ALL bras I've ever tried (minus the Masquerade Rhea, Ewa Michalak CH Onyx and HM Gold) do this closing trick on me. Even the Panache Andorra manages to cut in, whilst still being half empty.
Tighter bands make it worse as I invariably get overstretched wires due to my very tapered ribcage. For that same reason I really am not comfortable in tighter bands: they give me terrible muscle cramps and back pains after only a little while. I've considered the extension option though, thanks for the suggestion, but then I have the problem that wires simply are too narrow ...
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I think you should try only her ! I have passed an order myself a few months ago with the help of google translate, and it was quite easy
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helpfulDisclaimer that I have no idea how any of these actually fit (and some of the brands aren't on Bratabase) but based on your pictures it looks like the extra fabric seems to be in the area above the line from strap to gore so maybe eliminating that fabric would help.
What about bras that are a little more angled? Even on the model the top line of the Rive Gauche is more rounded than straight across.
http://www.figleaves.com/uk/product/SP-294-330/Implicite-Diamant-Half-Cup-Bra/?size=32C&colour=Black
Or ones that the strap isn't so far over or has more lift/support for the whole cup rather than just the attachment point?
http://www.figleaves.com/uk/product/AU-S914/Aubade-LInsoumise-Half-Cup-Bra/?size=32C&colour=Browns
Updated on April 29, 2013 Flag this
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Thanks, morgahn , for your suggestions :)
I'm particularly interested in those Implicite models -- for some reason they had escaped my attention thus far, but I may just fit within their size range now. I certainly like how they look! Passionata is also on my 'to try' list ... not entirely sure why I haven't yet as I even saw some in a local department store once ...
Anyway, a couple of problems I have with practically any bra it seems is that I am fairly petite (short upper torso) with high-set, 'short' breasts. This makes any bra come up higher than 'designed'. This particular Chantelle Demi is perhaps not the lowest cut of the lot, but I have since tried on a couple of others by this brand and they don't really fit me all that differently. I also have a very tapered ribcage which means that the top edge of most bras almost always is much tighter than it should. And finally, my conical breasts mean simply less volume to fill out cups than more spherical breasts with a similar root width and perimeter.
As to my 'experience' with some of the brands you mentioned:
I tried some Simone Pérèle half cups in store: they're gorgeous, but they look outright *awful* on me. The cups, again, come up quite high (they really look like full cups on me) and they have that same strange 'tight cup edge' effect this Chantelle Demi has. The single dart construction of the cups also makes me look even pointier than I am naturally -- really, this Chantelle Demi is round and uplifting heaven compared to what I get in Simone Pérèle. Finally, Simone Pérèle has super narrow wires and relatively deep cups in 'my' size range, too narrow and deep for me anyway.
Elle McPherson and I don't get along at all, but I haven't been able to figure out why ... I tried on several models and sizes in store, but they just didn't work. Yes, they are shallow, but in all the wrong places it seems. Also, despite the fact that Elle McPherson bands are reported to run small I personally didn't find this at all, at least not in the models I tried. I admit this was several months ago so things might have changed, but I don't know ... I'm also not exactly taken by how these bras look, so I'm reluctant to give them another go ...
Aubade is, unfortunately, way above my budget, but if I won the lottery I would certainly try this brand ;)
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Yeah, Aubade is out of my price range too but man, they have some beautiful bras.
I hope you are able to find something that works for you.
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Wire shape might also be in play here. Ignore what Chantelle says about good for shallow etc. I have two Chantelle bras and the cup forms a deep U shape as though trying to be a V. I get orange in glass. With Fantasie, the wires are technically the same width, but they form a wide U (think half a cantaloupe instead of a near-V). Cleo Lucy also had a wider U shape. So technically you can get the right numbers but still be off.
I'm the same height as you, short torso but boobs more centered (not that there is much room to center anything on for us compact models!) Also very soft, like you.So my suggestion is look at the shape of the wires as much as the numbers, and perhaps try Fantasie (no, I don't work for them but I am a huge fan). Maybe Cleo Lucy since you are smaller than I (my only issue with Lucy is that my larger boob kept trying to escape and flop towards the center gore even though the cups are close together).
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I've tried Fantasie: I love them, but they are invariably too deep and 'tall' for me, or maybe I should say too 'round'? They assume A LOT of volume above my nipple which I simply do not have. In order to get the cup volume more or less 'right' I have to size down, which makes the wires too narrow. The only Fantasie I've had luck with is their swimwear tankini (Helsinki): those cups are shaped by a single dart, which normally doesn't give the greatest of shapes (the extreme pointedness is softened effectively by the somewhat tight overlay though), but volume-wise results in a cup that actually matches my breasts. Even though my current size is probably closer to 32D, the 32DD I have still works fine.
I agree that the Chantelle classification 'shallow' - 'average' - 'full' doesn't seem consistently matched up with their models. The 'shallow' unpadded demis are definitely a lot deeper than the padded/lined bras in the same range for example, especially near the wires. As to those wires: can't say I have noticed the particular problem you mention, although I do think that the wires in the smaller sizes are too low under the arms. As my breast root is wider in the top than in the bottom, I often end up with empty space in the bottom 'corners' if wires are very U-shaped anyway. I don't mind that at all, though -- really, as long as the wires stay clear from my breast tissue and the bra cups otherwise seem a reasonably fit I'd gladly accept whatever is going on down there.
As to this particular demi: I've since also tried it on in 70B and that one was so much too small in all respects it was laughable. Where I see barely any difference in how the 70C and 70D fit me, the difference between 70C and 70B was HUGE. There's definitely something strange with the grading going on here.
Edited to Add:
The Cleo Lucy ... the number of times I've dragged that one into my shopping cart and discarded it at the last minute ... Anyway, how would you say it runs? Looking at the measurements in Bratabase I think I'm sized out? The 30DD looks too deep for me, the 30D too narrow. I need a cup depth of something like 19cm and wires that are AT LEAST 12,5cm wide, but preferably wider ... but then again, considering my lack of success so far, what do I really know? *sigh*
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About the latter; crazy suggestion from a crazy person; try a bra lower?!
Btw Rhea, since I constantly forget about that; did it stop working because of bad comfort, like did it need a tighter band to work or was it you getting smaller boobs after breast feeding? Why did it almost work in the past compared to now so to speak?
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Rhea stopped working because my vertical root measurement decreased. It seemed that while I was breastfeeding (and also why I was pregnant) my breast root became rounder ('taller') and my breasts very slightly less conical. At least this is what I think happened: it would certainly explain why my measurements seem to have remained largely the same, but none of the bras that used to (almost) work for me earlier work for me now. It also explains why going down in cup size is no option: yes, I have lost volume, but mostly in the 'vertical' sense, as in: my breasts got 'shorter'. I haven't lost all that much width, at least not enough to be able to cope with the narrower wires that go with the smaller cup size.
As to trying wearing a bra lower: then I can just as well wear no bra at all, as my breasts would just be 'hanging' in there ... it could perhaps work though if I could get the bottom of bra cups to pull COMPLETELY flat. I'm actually going to try it with the Chantelle Rive Gauche T-shirt I have coming my way -- that bra seems to have this tendency on many people and I myself have found that 65/30 bands almost invariably pull flat on me. It's hardly ideal, but if it works I'm not going to complain ;)
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helpfulOh, do I ever feel your pain.... I'm similarly shaped to you (but an inch or two shorter) and have probably spent thousands on bras in the past 5 or 6 years. I've also been breastfeeding my second child for 2 years so I know what it means to have a bra look beautiful and then an hour later not fit!! For that reason I literally lived in the Panache Alisha (nursing version) for the first 18 months. After the first year or so I also got a Panache Sophie, which is the same bra in a different fabric.
I wanted to ask you, have you tried the Panache Porcelain / Porcelain Lace or the Tango II Balconette? I've had a lot of luck with the Panache line because their cups seem to run a little wider and shallower (shorter north-south). I've also been quite happy with the Parfait by Affinitas Kelly Molded balconette (http://www.bratabase.com/browse/parfait-by-affinitas/kelly-molded-padded-bra-67016). It hasn't held up as well as my Panache bras, but by the same token it's less expensive so I don't mind.
Something to think about, hope it helps, and good luck!
Don't give up, there is no substitute for the feeling of a well-fitted bra. Updated on May 29, 2013 Flag this
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Thanks for your suggestions! :)
I have actually tried both the Panache Porcelain and the Panache Sophie. Unfortunately both were unmitigated disaster, you can see how the Porcelain looks on me here: http://www.bratabase.com/browse/panache/porcelain-molded-seamless-underwire-3376/32D/. The top edge of this bra was so tight across my chest it actually hurt. A cup size up only resulted in even more excess space in the cups, without really relieving the tightness. The Sophie (my review is up, but I still have to upload pictures) had about four cm excess vertical space in the cup -- it was just way too deep for me, vertically. However, if/when I get pregnant again I might give the Sophie another shot as it is one of the prettiest bras I've ever seen -- especially for a soft cup! --and I think it might work better then. My breasts seem to get a bit 'rounder' (both root- and profile-wise) during pregnancy and breastfeeding.
Parfait by Affinitas is still on my list to try ... I've run a bit out of steam though, financially, so I'll have to take it a bit slow at the moment :(
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Thanks, Vee :)
The thing is, I can't wear a C cup: the wires are too narrow for comfort. Especially on my larger right side it really starts hurting after some time, a kind of 'burning' sensation that spreads all over the side of my ribcage. The 70D I tried in this model was pretty much as narrow in the wires as I can go -- but so much too roomy in the cups it was laughable.
As to where the cups end on my chest: my breast tissue actually ends higher, about halfway between the cup edge and my collarbone. It's just so shallow up there that it's barely visible. The edges of these are borderline cutting in. Really obviously so when I pull my shoulders further back.
As to how this bra fits the models: as far as I know, his demi, like all Chantelle demis, is cut to come up higher in the larger cup sizes. y 'larger cup' the presumably mean DD+, as the fit is quite exactly the same in the 70D I have. What puzzles me most, though, is the tiny difference between the 70C and 70D: only 0.5cm. Oh and of course how the cups can look so 'closed' on me ... the eternal mystery, I guess.
I thought of the Only Her ... maybe I should indeed try that one ...