Bra fitting help » No immediate projection, wire width and height, cup depth and spacing
Cleo » Piper Longline Balconnet Bra (9351) » 28F 28:7
First off, I know this is a cup size too big. I'm still figuring out where I'm most likely to land from 28E/F to 30DD/E. But regardless, I think I'd still contend with lack of immediate projection. I'm very newly learning about this by looking at others' pictures here and realizing I never get lift from unlined bras (the only kind I wear.) I'm realizing all underwires sit way down below my breasts, and because of this perhaps I've been mistakenly thinking wires are short enough and not too wide. Although in the side pic the wire seems to be at the edge of my breast, and not in my armpit, I think it is too wide. I believe that the sliding-down-the-ribcage thing has been masking too-wide wires/too-deep cups. (Also, the other nonpictured wire is definitely further out into my armpit.) I am a total newbie to diagnosing wires, but I think so now, ever since someone here introduced me to "short roots" yesterday (astonished). Maybe the the wire height looks unproblematic (except from the side) because it's just sitting too low? I can say the wire is uncomfortable pretty much all over. Although I know I'd come closer in 28E or 30DD, I'm posting this because the issues pertain to 75% of bras I've tried. Many wired and seamed bras give me virtually no shaping benefit over my braless/braletted breasts, yet without the comfort and natural feel of those options.
In addition to confirming/correcting these hunches, I'm wondering: Are the cups too far apart on this bra for me? Should I be looking for narrower gores? (Or altering them?) Does this contribute to the fact that almost all bras give me horizontal spread? I used to think that categorically, all bras make me look wide. I'm intrigued by side panels (such as Freya Hero's) that very blatantly push breasts toward the center. But now I'm wondering, after reading more about narrow wires and strap placement and gore width and so on, if perhaps I'm overhyping explicit side support. In other words, if the wire and cup and spacing and projection are right, then the job of being front-and-centered is potentially accomplished without a side panel. Any insights on this? Thanks a ton for the guidance!
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helpfulHonestly, I'm not seeing much of what you're describing. The cups are a bit wrinkly but not enough to warrant going down a cup size. The wires are up in your IMF fully and it looks like there's sufficient room for your immediate projection. The wires don't look too wide along your side - if anything I'd say they might be too narrow. You look to have a typical root height to me. Short roots are very defined at the top of the tissue when the breasts are supported, like a D or b. You seem to have a more gradual slope of tissue at the top of your breast.
I can't really see whether the gore width is right from the pictures, but if it's sitting on or pressing into breast tissue, then you're close-set and technically the gore is too wide. You could definitely alter gores if you want, but honestly as someone with very close-set breasts, I don't think gores sitting on or pressing into breast tissue is a huge problem with close-set breasts if everything is comfortable and stays in place and you're not getting like bruising or welts.
Updated on July 21, 2017 Flag this
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Are the cups still wrinkling when you stand up really tall with your shoulders back? If that's the case you're in the smallest cup you can wear. That's the range of motion that you need.
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Thanks Blur. The cups still wrinkle about this much when I stand tall with shoulders back. Though if I hike the wire into my fold, the cups wrinkle way more than this, regardless of posture. So I think the cup is too big.
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helpfulDefinitely try 30DD!
A wider band will allow the wires to relax, giving you more immediate projection at the base of the cups and the smaller cup size will help with the wrinkling.
It's not uncommon that people need to size up in the band in longline bras, because a wider band just causes more tension overall.I am not sure about the gore issue, as it is hard to tell from pictures with a bra that's both too large in the cups and a tad too small in the band.
My boobs are wide set so there is usually no tissue where the gore sits, but a digging gore caused by a too small band will still cause pain.To figure out how close-set your boobs are, I recommend the hanging test: Without a bra, bend your torso forward by 90 degrees and check how much space there is between your boobs at your sternum.
That being said, I usually don't find that info very useful when shopping for bras, as I can totally wear bras with wider gores and be fine, as long as the band isn't too firm and the wires are flexible enough.Updated on July 22, 2017 Flag this
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bracrastination thanks for the tips, I'll try the 30DD.
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helpfulYour bra complaints sound SO similar to mine.
I discovered I had shallow tissue under my arm. And, most wires simply bisected it. 1/3 of my breasts remained behind the side wire. Sigh. Like you, I thought I was narrow prior to this revelation. Hopefully, you discover the root of your problem soon 
Piper has been reported by others to have significant immediate projection. Gorsenia unlined balconettes may have more. I have not yet tried Piper because I loathe firm wires. If you don't have padding on your ribs, the wires can really hurt.
And, some of us have rib flares that the wires grind into and rub. Ouch!Updated on July 21, 2017 Flag this
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Thanks Love4Pollinators! I'm not sure I can picture "shallow tissue under the arm." Does this mean that the outside of your breast is shallowly sloped - more like a bowl than a cup, for example?
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From the side, most wires look ok on me regardless of width, because the rest of the breast just fills in. Soft tissue, omega shape, can't say whether roots are narrow or not in the absolute sense but they are certainly narrow relative to the rest of my breasts.
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Bowl, Nike swoosh,....yes. Those describe some wider roots. Mine is very shallow, but sends very strong signals of discomfort when bisected.
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Thanks Love4Pollinators. Even reading the phrase "strong signals of discomfort when bisected" is painful!
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helpfulIf your breast are somewhat self supporting and projected you might not see a lot of lift or shaping from most bras. I don't. My mom complained to me that I need better bras but really my bras are fine. It's just a number of factors working together in my case (which might be yours as well) I need a lot of strap tension to the point it's uncomfortable to really "lift" things. And even then it's not a drastic amount. I think if a person is fuller on top or has more malleable tissue or a more pendulous shape, or wider set, you can notice more difference between bra and not bra in at least a certain size range. I'm also personally lower set and have a short torso so there is some optical illusion going on as far as lack of support / lift.
The band might be too tight a distorting the wires a little since it's a long line. How does it feel / look if you hoist it up to your imf? In your pictures it looks fine but I know sometimes wires slide down with wear but wouldn't show immediately for a photo. As far as looking wide or not that can depend a lot on the cut. I wonder if I can or someone can post a link to a blog that went into a lot of depth on cut and sew bra shapes that might be helpful.
Updated on July 25, 2017 Flag this
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Thank you! When I hoist the bra by the straps so it sits in my IMF, the cups are way baggier. In that scenario, I think the cups themselves just have too much volume all around. Also, the wires on this (first Cleo I've tried) seem to flare out widely at the outside end, not sure if this is a brand or style thing. I think you're right about the band, revisa. I should have tried a 30DD and still might for educational purposes.
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A snugger cup will probably give you more lift too then and less material in the armpit. I haven't tried piper so I'm not sure how it compares to other cleos but it's a popular brand so you might be able to ask on the main page and get some good answers. Unlined cleos are generally reasonably projected, reasonably narrow, reasonably deep and centered. I find their gores a bit wide for my taste. Cleo does have a few different cuts that make up the bulk of their models and in those there is a range of all those categories as well as closed or open on top. I think it's a great brand and the handful of bras I've kept lasted like no other but I've found some others which fit me more comfortably and are more boring and therefore better under my light weight tees
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Thanks revisa. Very good to know, I'm going to try some other Cleo styles.
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helpfulOkay, so after going through the pictures of you in other bras I can definitely see why you say this is not sitting in your IMF. So, why don't you put it on, shove the wires in your IMF and then take the picture so that we can clearly see your fit and fit issues?
It appears you have pendulous breasts in your other photos, so you will need to lean over, put the straps on, shove the wire in your IMF, tighten the straps, make sure wire is still in your IMF, do up the back, still leaning over, make sure the wires are still in your IMF, do your scoop and swoop and then stand up. Tighten straps if needed, readjust if needed and scoop and swoop again. You have to get into the habit of always making sure your wires are in your IMF or you will never get the fit and lift you desire. If you take pictures of this bra on you in your IMF i will be able to better help you! With pendulous breasts the breast itself hangs down below the IMF, so you will require a bra with good immediate projection and this bra has that. I'd like to help more if you wouldn't mind taking pictures of yourself wearing the bra in the correct spot.
I'd also like to note that the wrinkling that's visible in this bra and your other panache bra is minimal and looks like it fits just fine. I get vertical wrinkles all the time in my unlined bras because i don't have my fullness in the exact spot the bra wants it, but it still fits and looks great under clothes. I also feel that your trying to get that perfect "moulded cup" shape that's created by bras like the Freya Deco and other T-shirt bras, this is not a look you will ever achieve without wearing a badly fitting moulded cup bra. Natural shape is just as beautiful as a basket ball shape!Updated on February 1, 2018 Flag this
Thanks for your thoughts, hurrrrrmione. I will take some better pictures. This bra wire actually sits way below my fold. I think it's hard to tell, but this is an example of "completely unsupported" for me, with the cups simply resting on top of my breasts in their natural position, not lifted at all. I'll try to depict this more clearly in a different bra.