Bra fitting help » Cup shape or size issue?
Ewa Michalak » Pl Onyks (196) » 65E 30:6
Issue resolved
The more I wear this bra the more I am convinced it is indeed a cup and/or breast shape issue rather than a size issue. Taking into account that throughout the day the size and density of my breasts can fluctuate quite dramatically, size-wise this bra really fits quite well. It is also extremely comfortable to wear, moreso even than my Panache Andorra, which sometimes has its wires digging into my sternum. I think that the two remaining issues -- which cannot really be 'fixed' by changing size -- are the following: (1) because my breasts sit relatively high on my chest, the upper corner of the cups where they attach to the straps also sits quite high and interferes somewhat with my arm and shoulder movement, hence the gaping; and (2) the base of my breasts is shaped like a horizontal oval -- clearly wider than it is high -- which makes me fill out the bottom of the cups very well, but the top of the cups considerably less. This too may contribute to the gaping I'm experiencing.
Anyway, thank you all for your suggestions! This has been a fruitful and interesting exercise for me!
Original problem
It feels somewhat silly to ask fitting help for a bra that essentially fits reasonably well, but I do need advice.
The issue:
This bra fits fairly well as long as I assume my normal, straight-backed position. However, the cups gap quite badly when I reach my arms forward (also, they cut in and cause quad boob when I pull my shoulders back, but that seems less of a problem to me).My questions:
Is the issue I'm having a matter of size or of (incompatible) cup shape? Will a smaller cup size be likely to reduce the problem?Further information:
(1) My breasts sit relatively high on my chest, so the point where the cups connect to the straps sits also fairly high and might not always stay flush with my body when I move my arms. I've noticed that the problem is less in the CH Onyx Padded Half Cup I also tried, although that one had other fitting issues.
(2) I may not be filling out the top of the cups as completely as I probably should although this really isn't noticeable due to the padded material the cups are made of. Also, the size of my breasts fluctuates because of breastfeeding, so I'm already accepting slight gaping at 'low tide' (because of breastfeeding I'd really rather wear a bra that is *slightly* too big than too small, although a perfect fit would of course be optimum).
This bra looks good enough and definitely feels great, so I'm definitely keeping it. I'm just wondering whether a smaller size might be even better, or whether I should rather try a different model.
Thanks for your thoughts!
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Suggestions (4)
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helpful
I think part of what you are encountering here is that Ewa has size-adjusted wires and cupshapes.
In the bigger cupsizes Ewa bras have narrow wires and deep cups, in the smaller sizes the cups are quite shallow and wide. This is especially true for the PL-styles.
In size 65E EM bras are right between those two shapes. My guess is that the bra is a tiny bit too shallow for you.
As for the gaping when you lean forward and cutting in when you lean backward - that is normal with padded bras.
What is important for you as a nursing mom - do the wires sit on breasttissue? Wires sitting on breasttissue can cause galaktosis.
Half a cupsize up/down - this is actually very easily done with Ewa. If you take the crosssize 70DD the cup is not identical in size, there is half a cupsize difference. IIRC it was half a cupsize down. So if you need half a cupsize up, try a 70E.
Updated on October 7, 2012 Flag this
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No, wait, it should be the other way round:
From 65E to 70DD gives a relatively wider, shallower cup, half a cup size down from the original.
From 65E to 60F gives a relatively narrower, deeper cup half a cup size up from the original.
Do all these 'sister size' have the same or very similar wires, but slightly different cup shapes (respectively shallower or deeper)? Or are the wires actually different (respectively wider or narrower) and is the cup shape the same? Or is it a combination of the above?
Argh, this feels a bit like doing maths ... ;)
Anyway, forgive me harping on this a bit. It's just that, whatever cup size I need, I don't think it should have narrower wires in ABSOLUTE terms (i.e. measured in cm/inches) than the ones in this 65E -- if this makes any sense ...
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I don't know a lot about wire width on Ewas, sorry. I think the way it works is that Ewa picks the wires according to bandsize. AFAIK the idea behind this is that the larger your bandsize, the wider your wires need to be. As a consequence there is a difference in wire width when you switch bandsizes, but I have no clue how big the difference is and how it affects fit.
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I've noticed there are tiny little labels stitched inside the bras next to the wires. The label in this 65E PL Onyks reads 'M', the label in the 65E HM Gold reads 'XXL', and the label in the 65E CH Onyx 'XS'. I don't know whether these letters have anything to do with the size or of the wires or cups or just refer to the wire 'type', but of these three the 'XXL' corresponds to the widest (and for me most comfortable) wires, the 'XS' to the narrowest (and for me least comfortable) wires, and the 'M' falls somewhere in between.
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I was told that those letters designate the seamstress who made the bra. But your theory makes sense too. The CH styles supposedly have the narrowest wires, especially in the smaller sizes.
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helpfulThis is why I don't really like moulded and/or padded cups. Even when I have a padded cup that is too small they will gape when slouching and/or reaching forward and quad boob when stretching. It drives me nuts. This is the biggest reason why I've never bothered trying EM; it's either padded or soft cups with a vertical seaming. Ugh.
On the other hand I agree with Vlatka to a degree: the underwire is sitting on breast tissue on the sides but I don't think going up a cup will help anything. I think the cup itself is the right volume if not a smidgeon too big but EM is known for having narrow underwires so for someone with a wide root they generally just won't work.
ETA: If it causes no pain then I really wouldn't worry too much but you are breast feeding so on that point I'm not sure. (no kids here) I have a couple of bras I still wear myself where the underwires technically do hit the edge breast tissue with no overt pain as well.
Updated on October 7, 2012 Flag this
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I wasn't looking for a padded cup, but I just ordered a bunch of things to give a try. After almost a year of struggling with ill-fitting nursing stuff I'm in for ANYTHING (although finding the perfect, non-padded bra is still my dream).
Anyway, narrow wires, yes, I heard about those. I don't find these THAT narrow, actually, especially compared to some Freyas I tried earlier. As I wrote in my response to Vlatka the 'marks' on my skin are not anyway near my breast tissue and the wires really feel as if they're resting on solid bone (I have virtually no 'padding' on my ribcage so my ribs are quite easily detectable). In fact, I just compared the wires and the way they sit on my chest to my Panache Andorra and found them, surprisingly, quite the same. I don't know whether it is the way I'm 'contorting' myself to get a clear shot that pulls the skin in a way as to suggest breast tissue or whether the wires really ARE sitting on breast tissue, but I really am getting a bit confused now ...
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I've had my share of breast infections (not caused by wearing underwired bras though as I wasn't wearing any at the time) so I am VERY concerned about getting this right. It really is a very valid concern.
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I've never had breast infections, but I am very familiar with infections (and have been hospitalised because of them) so I do know that infection is a valid concern. If you are prone to them then I wouldn't.
I too am very thin and you can see my ribs as well. I have a standard root with narrow boobs. Even with a too small cup the underwires will not touch breast tissue physically on the side but if visually extended the underwire up to the root it would hit tissue at the root. This may be what is happening here?
On that note: Thank You for clarifying the width of the wires. I need narrow underwires and always kept thinking I should try EM because of this but always got disappointed because of the cup styles they offer. Since they aren't any narrower than my beloved Freya I can let it die.
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Ah, I see what you mean. Maybe that's indeed it ... it still puzzles me -- it feels more like a fold of skin than actual breast tissue, but if that is what it is, I'd better not risk it.
Oh well. I was not intending this bra as daily wear anyway. Still, I think I'll be fine for a special occasion or two and with my breast size fluctuating as it does is may not always be a problem.
As to the width of the wires: I don't mean to generalise my observation that in this particular model in this particular size they seem fairly similar as the ones in my Panache Andorra. Of course, I can't vouch for other cup sizes and EM bra styles. The CH and HM, for example, both seem to have slightly more depth relative to their width than the PL. But all of these are definitely wider than the two Freyas I found, which really were EXTREMELY narrow, in my experience.
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By the way, did you see what t_maia just posted:
"In the bigger cupsizes Ewa bras have narrow wires and deep cups, in the smaller sizes the cups are quite shallow and wide. This is especially true for the PL-styles.
In size 65E EM bras are right between those two shapes. My guess is that the bra is a tiny bit too shallow for you."
Maybe this settles it for you ... ?
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Yeah it settles it. Good thing I never did try... I really would've been disappointed. Oh well, I guess I should be glad that at least I can count on Freya to always fit me. It just seems so limiting at times.
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helpfulI know this may not be an answer you were expecting, but to me it looks at least a cup size too small on you. I doesn't seem to incase your breasts properly. On the second picture there is a bit of a side boob as well as quadboob, and it seems though the wire is sitting on your breast tissue. It certainly is wearable, but I really think you'd be better off in a cup size up
Updated on October 7, 2012 Flag this
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Too small?! Well, that certainly is a surprise!
In the second picture I'm pulling my shoulders back, so yes, definite quad boob action there. As to the side boob thing: that's actually what I thought I saw when I put this bra on the first time, but it just didn't seem to make sense ... with the front edge of the cup gaping and all. I thought a proper scoop and jiggle had taken care of it, but maybe not then. The 'marks' on my skin when I take it off don't suggest the wires are sitting on my breast tissue nor do I experience any discomfort of that kind, but if that is the case, I'd obviously better fix it.
Interesting.
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Do you have the "cookies" in the bra in these pics? I would be curious to see how it looks without them. That might actually work. But as long as you are breastfeeding (i cant believe you had a baby!!!!! Wow! :)) there's mo safe bet - the fit will vary on hourly basis ;)
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No, I don't. I find it fits 'better' and more comfortably without those, although at certain times the size difference between my left and right side is so noticeable that a cookie really helps evening it out. Adding the cookies doesn't really change or improve the overall fit though.
Thanks for the compliment :) I guess I simply was lucky -- it all just 'disappeared', I never had to do much for it (except breastfeed).
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(sorry, comment went to the wrong place -- see the 'summary' of this fitting help request)
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helpful
I think overall you have a pretty good fit. The fact that the cup seems both too big and too small suggests that it may be more of a cup shape issue than an actual size problem. If anything, I'd say maybe you need half a cup size up, but unfortunately... Really wide set straps like on the bra really emphasize the changes in the way a bra fits depending on where you move your shoulders. I think if the straps were connected closer to the middle of the cups and came across your shoulders a little more to the inside where there's not as much movement that effect would be decreased. It also looks like you have the straps pulled tight. I'm not sure if that's because the cup is too large and you're trying to pull out slack, but my guess is because otherwise you're really spilling out of the cups so you're trying to keep everything in place. I'm assuming you feel comfortable with the back size, so maybe a cup size up and a little adjustment of the straps would help. I think a lot of women overlook this, but especially for full busted women, strap adjustment can really influence the fit of a bra.
Updated on October 7, 2012 Flag this
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Half shoe sizes, half dress sizes, half band sizes, half cup size -- oh, if only ;)
The bra strap issue is also a recurring phenomenon: relatively short upper torso and wide-set breasts makes it very difficult to find bras that don't have their cups and straps cutting off circulation into my arms. I think this model simply isn't the most convenient for me in that respect.
The straps are indeed quite tight. More to take up slack that to prevent falling out though -- I think. To be honest, I'm not sure about much anything anymore since I started out on the journey to find my perfect bra fit. Anyway, in the photos I'm wearing the comfort straps that are only partially adjustable and only partially elastic. The regular straps can be tightened further which seems to make the gaping a little bit less still, but they are REALLY not very comfortable that way.
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I'm quite sure the wires are not sitting on breast tissue -- I'm paranoid about that after three breast infections (NOT caused by wearing underwired bras though, as I wasn't wearing any at the time) -- there's solid bone underneath them. My breasts can feel fuller or emptier, but the base itself is always quite compact and firm -- easily discernible from surrounding tissue (which actually is either skin or bone as I really have very little 'padding' on my upper body). That's why I'm also puzzled by that appearance of 'side boob' in photos beside number 2, where I'm on purpose pulling my shoulders back -- it really feels more like a fold of skin than like actual breast tissue. Maybe this happens because of the tightness of the band? I find it rather comfortable, but I suppose I could consider wearing it with an extender on the equivalent of one hook position looser ...
Anyway, I do indeed think the bottom of these cups is a bit too shallow.
Interesting information about the cup sizing! I thought I read something about this somewhere, but I couldn't find it any more ... so, 'sister sizing up' from 65E to 70DD would give you a relatively deeper, narrower cup half a cup size smaller than the original? I am assuming they have more or less the same wire shape (which in this 65E actually seems quite spot on for me), but a slightly different cup volume, or does the difference come from something else? Also, just out of curiosity as it obviously doesn't apply for me with this model: 'sister sizing down' from 65E to 60F would then give you a relatively wider, shallower cup and half a cup size more? Really, really interesting -- this kind of information should be catalogued and made available for easy reference somewhere.
Now the question remains whether a 70 band would be snug enough ...